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what I do to this day. I mean, you know,

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Sherlock is a really good example of

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this where I would get I would cast my

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player partly because I've heard them

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before and partly because of who I know

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they are, you know, um, as a human

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being, as an actor. And I and I would

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just get them in. I would, you know, we

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would just sit and chat with the

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instrument and go, "Okay, tell me what

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you can do." But, you know, no, no, no.

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I want a bit more, you know. What What

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is it the instrument?

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We did this a lot on Interstellar um

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with the woodwinds going now that I know

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each one of you has a sound that every

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that that you were never allowed to

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play. What is that sound? and you just

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enter into the conversation. I mean, on

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this last Batman and Superman film, I

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needed to find a sound for Wonder Woman.

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Um, you know, and at first I went the

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obvious route, which was, you know, like

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a female voice. I went, "Oh, God, I've

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done that a thousand times, you So, so

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that's solid. And then I suddenly

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remembered a female chalist friend of

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mine, Tina Guro, who plays electric

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cello. And she is

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when she comes into the room, she's one

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of the most polite and humble and quiet

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people, you know, very reserved,

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very shy.

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But when she grabs the cello, she has a

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certain way of grabbing the cello and

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moving the bow in front of it. It's like

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some ninja warrior princess and all hell

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is unleashed. So, so, so I had the

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phrase written and the phrase was, you

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know, it was a

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tiny little phrase, but all I tried to

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do is get Tina who's speaking to me with

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best manners to become

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the banshee that I knew she could be

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once she because people are different

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when they have their instruments in

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front of them. you know the the

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they can express something that they

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keep hidden from you. And the whole

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point the whole point of this room the

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whole point of what I what I try to do

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with them is I try to trick them into

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the comfort of expressing all that they

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can express. And with Tina I mean

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literally it we spend a week on this

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phrase just honing this honing the

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performance of this. And I I remember

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the first time

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playing it to the director and his

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producer wife, you know, they were

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sitting on on the couch and without

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saying anything, I you know, had the

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picture running and then then that

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phrase came in and

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it was a physical shock to them in in a

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good way.

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It made them nervous. It made them

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anxious. It made them really excited

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because you know I I I transformed the

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character. But it was it was

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really really

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two things. One knowing what the cello

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can do or not knowing what the cello can

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do and really having the conversation

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about I know it can play pretty but what

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else can it do? And stopping this idea

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that you want to have a cello. I don't

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want to have a cello. I want Tina Guo.

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That's who I want. And I do that with

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with all of my players. I need to know,

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you know, I I it's not the string

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section. If if you think of it as the

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string section, you you know, you might

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as well go into the fields and hire a

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bunch of sheep. That's not the point.

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The point is that you want to handpick

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every individual player for their

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strength.

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You're talking to a guy doing

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blockbuster movies here and everybody's

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forever, you know, it's Like everybody

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thinks money is no object and maybe that

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is what is keeping people from wanting

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to become film composers because they

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don't know how they're going to hire the

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huge big orchestra etc. And they think

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that's all necessary and it's not you

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know it's like find a great player have

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a great friend you know have somebody

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somebody can make a fantastic noise on

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one instrument. I mean, this is Alexi

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Gurusman, who's one of my oldest friends

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and um an extraordinarily great actor as

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much as a violinist.

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Sometimes it feels important to me to to

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go and make scores which sound

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huge through their emotional intention

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as opposed to, you know, having 102

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people playing indifferently.

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Um, whenever people talk to me about why

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they can't do something, oh no, I don't

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have the money or I don't have the

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opportunity or whatever, you have the

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opportunity, you know, get a cardboard

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box with a rubber band and mic it with

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your cell phone and you might come up

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with something really interesting. Um,

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that's the job. Be creative. invent. At

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the end of the day, the biggest effect I

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can get, the the thing which makes it

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real, the thing that that legitimizes it

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as an emotional experience is to get one

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player who's just going to play his ass

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off. Um, and so I cast very carefully. I

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mean,

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you know, I picked this score sort of on

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purpose because it's

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um curiously underwhelming in its

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forces. You know, it's just a few people

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in a room as opposed to the huge

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symphony orchestra, which is what

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everybody assumes a film score should

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be. But I think if you listen if you

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listen to a great string quartet, you

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know, play a Beethoven string quartet

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with,

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you know, full commitment to the notes,

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it'll sound better than any it'll sound

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bigger than than the biggest orchestra

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you can possibly have. Cuz I think what

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really truly resonates is is the intent

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and the commitment of a performance. Cuz

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I think at the end of the day, that's

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that is is what the score is supposed to

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do. The score is supposed to forever get

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you back to the specifics, you know,

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maintain specificity with the character

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and with the story.

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There's nothing that

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uh

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that an instrumentalist enjoys more than

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showing off what their instrument can

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do. So, look, I'm a synth geek. So when

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when I I meet another synth geek, we're

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going to be talking until all hours

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about oscillators and filters and all

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sorts of stuff, you know. So if you if

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you turn this conversation over to cello

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or violin or, you know, hey, I didn't

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know how the timber lom worked. It looks

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impossible to me, you know, and you sit

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down with the guy and you say, what can

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you do? and oh this and and and and what

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can you not do? You want to write

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something which is sporty and

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challenging you know which gives them a

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bit of some you know you know they don't

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you don't want them to sleep through the

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session. Um but at the same time you

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don't want to ever do something which is

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not which is awkward under the fingers.

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I mean there's always a different way of

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solving it.

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You always want to write up to the

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strength of the instrument. You want to

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write up to the strength of the player.

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So, for instance, what works well with

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certain players might not work well with

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other players as well. Um, I mean, I can

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I can be as specific as this that a

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French horn isn't a French isn't a

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French horn from country to country. Um,

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here in Los Angeles, they use much

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bigger mouthpieces so that it's a

185
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rounder, warmer sound, while what I use

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on Batman Batman is the London guys who

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have these small mouthpieces. So, so you

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get that bright, brash, opinionated

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tone. And then in Vienna, it's a whole

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other thing, you know. So,

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yeah, you're going to get caught out at

192
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the beginning. you're going to find out

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that the tuning on on the in continental

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Europe is three hertz sharper than it is

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anywhere else in the world. Um, and your

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tracks are suddenly sounding a bit

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different. Um, it's just information and

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then after a while if you've been

199
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,800
hanging with players and you've been do

200
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you've been doing things it becomes

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knowledge. You know how to go and

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use it to your advantage.

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I mean,

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a violin is a piece of wood with some

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dead bits of cat on top, you know?

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That's it's but it's a piece of

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technology. They're all pieces of

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technology. And it's just um over the

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years, people have learned how to make

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that technology express emotion.

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And I suppose when I started out playing

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around with computers, I mean that that

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was the whole idea, you know. It's like,

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oh, can I can I go and cajul this piece

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of technology into um expressing some

216
00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:19,560
form of emotion?

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00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,480
So that's the Sherlock theme from

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Sherlock one. We needed to challenge

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00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,600
ourselves a bit and and and

220
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,160
figure out a new way of telling it. And

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you know when I when I said that in the

222
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,839
first one I was thinking about this

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whole idea that

224
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Sherlock

225
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,480
might be looking a little beyond the

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classical violinists

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and that he was really interested in the

228
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,279
gypsy violinists.

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I phoned up Guy and I said, you know,

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for this one I think we got to go a bit

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00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,600
on a road trip. And so cutting a story

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00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:17,120
short, we managed to figure out a way of

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00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,519
going to Slovakia and every morning

234
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getting up at 5:00 in the morning and

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going from one Roma camp to the next and

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00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,560
just listening to all these amazing

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musicians

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00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,519
um and sort of going, "Oh, amazing

239
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:36,399
violinist, amazing clarinetist, amazing

240
00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:39,200
timber player, amazing accordionist.

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00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,519
Um

242
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:44,320
and we just you know all the all all the

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00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,399
best ones were you know all the ones we

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00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:49,360
we tr I mean there's so many I mean this

245
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,279
this was the you know this was the great

246
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discovery you know that in the middle of

247
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Europe there is a world that nobody

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00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,480
knows about because they're complete

249
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,480
they live in complete isolation because

250
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,519
they're basically hated by everybody and

251
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:06,880
so you know the the the the sort of the

252
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,639
racism is just out of control about how

253
00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:13,760
much the the the gypsies are loathed,

254
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,320
etc. Um, and how they can't get jobs.

255
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,800
So, the only thing they can really do is

256
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,200
become extraordinary musicians. It's

257
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,800
part of the culture. And so, I think it

258
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,040
was some of the happiest time of my life

259
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,040
just being there. Uh,

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I don't speak Roma. We, you know, at one

261
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:36,880
point it was like half of my crew spoke

262
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,160
English, some spoke German, some had to

263
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,240
speak Slovak, Russian, but nobody spoke

264
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Roma. So, at first it was all this

265
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stilted stuff of trying to work through

266
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,399
translators. And then finally I just had

267
00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:54,639
enough and I just started playing and we

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00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:57,600
just started playing and you know 4

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hours go by nobody has actually uttered

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a word but

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you know and at first they were a little

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hesitant you know and you know after

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about an hour I'm sort of getting the

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you know the raised eyebrow when I play

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a wrong note. So I know where we're now

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heading the right way that we're

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becoming some sort of a band. So once I

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found my musicians, you know, um we

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brought them all into a bus, took them

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to Vienna and just got into the studio

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and started, you know, I I just went

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here here are the themes, guys, you

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know, now go and interpret them, you

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know, I just gave them complete freedom

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to do whatever they wanted to do with

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them. Um, and I mean, and this is this,

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you know, this is one of those things

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because I just thought there was there

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was something to be had, you know,

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we're telling this crazy fantasy movie,

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but there but there is there's a part of

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this world that still exists, you know,

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where people play like this. I mean, it

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was very interesting having Alexi

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Iguzzman again with me who's such an

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extraordinary violinist

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and has such an extraordinary

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instrument.

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him in the room with the gypsy

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violinists and he would play one note

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quietly and it would be so loud because

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his instrument is so good. And these

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guys having to and you suddenly realize

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that part of their style comes from,

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you know, those are cheap instruments.

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It's the best they can afford and and

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the only way they can go and make them

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sound good is is by playing. they have

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to compensate for the lack of great

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instruments by the amount of passion

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they put into it. So, and you know, and

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and that's of the thing you're trying to

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hunt down all the time. You you you you

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want authentic passion. Um, so you know,

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and once you feel solid enough about

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your tune, you know, I just like to of

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just sort of throw it in the middle of

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the room and go, "Okay, guys, whatever

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you want to do with it, set fire to it,

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you know, whatever it is, you know,

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let's just see where you can take it

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because I know the notes are strong

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enough to take all sorts of abuse and by

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abusing them a bit, they'll probably

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become more interesting.